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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 341 for the third of may

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2015 Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia coming up on this

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week's show we have a special guest

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reporter josh godby who's a committee

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member of Australian skeptics I here in

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Sydney Wow lucky man he went to QED in

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Manchester he went to the wonderful

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conference there I've been a couple of

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times myself I always have a good time

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and he catches up with our good friend

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Michael Marshall they're going to be

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discussing what it's like to run a

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conference like QED and how it went and

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also the latest on the situation in the

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UK with homeopathy all the old chestnut

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of homeopathy talk about an unsinkable

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rubber duck homeopathy is certainly one

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of those no matter how many times we

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push it under the water it pops back up

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again following that it's a week in

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science from our good friends at the

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Royal Institution of Australia and

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outfit worthy of your support check it

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out w WR ia us Augie you then Joe

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alabaster with evidence please Joe's

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going to be looking at our very sad

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situation that happened last week here

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in Australia with a young boy dying and

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the the fear is that his parents took

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him off real medication and were trying

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some pretty outlandish and frankly

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bizarre alternative therapies either

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what was it something like slapping

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therapy slapping to create bruises yes

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that'll cure your diseases and not a

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good story not a happy story but one we

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should report on then to round off the

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show i chat to a good friend of mine

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Alison Gaylord from the northern rivers

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area Alison and highly and a lot of

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people came into Sydney just last week

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to attend a one-day conference on

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immunization and I went along to I

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interview some people on the spot learnt

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a lot learnt a lot on the day had a lot

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of good speakers chair it to a lot of

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good people and we'll be talking about

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that at the end of the show Alison

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Gaylord

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me all the way from Milan mini which i

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think is probably underwater at the

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moment because I've had a huge amount of

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rain and as I look out the window here

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in Sydney Australia it's cloudy and wet

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and rainy big shout-out to Daphne

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alabaster who had her birthday just the

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other week and I went up to the Blue

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Mountains and took part in to her

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birthday celebrations happy birthday

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Daphne I loved that cake and

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congratulations to our minbar Stanny who

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is the winner of the competition we had

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from last week the book you win the book

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from New Scientist question everything

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now that was a Facebook competition we

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were running and we invited people to

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post an interesting question that they

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would like science to answer we had some

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very very good entries there somebody

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wrote is there an expected date where

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the universe will end or will it just

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keep going forever that's a good

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question somebody asked how is it that

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there is hair on your arms legs and face

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my brows that grows to a certain length

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in stops by the hair on your head and

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chin keep growing hmm somebody else

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asked the Sun is about halfway through

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its life before it dies it will expand

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and take out Mercury Venus and perhaps

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earth but how long will it be before the

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Sun becomes too hot for life to exist on

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earth well a long time to come yet I

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hope thank you to all those people but

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the winning entry was a very simple

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sentence does language limit our

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understanding of science what an

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interesting question what an interesting

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question because people who speak other

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languages or two or three languages do

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they have a greater understanding or not

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that's something worth pondering

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congratulations I'm in and will organize

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that book to you but now it's time for

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me to run downstairs open the fridge and

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see if I haven't got a cup of leftover

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crumbs from the lovely rainbow birthday

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cake the joe alabaster made for Daphne

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her daughter wow what a great cake it

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was and the rainbow cookies we had to

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and I had a cup of rainbow jelly or

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jello as they say in the United States

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with whip

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cream on top and rainbow popcorn yes it

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was a very rainbow themed party well I

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do that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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and now join our special guest reporter

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josh god be from australian skeptics as

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he chats to Michael Marshall so I'm here

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with Michael marshal of the Merseyside

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skeptics one of the organizers and

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speakers of this year's qad how are you

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traveling with what I'm sure well after

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what I'm sure was a very hectic weekend

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yeah I'm absolutely knackered but is

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this whole week of interest i'll keep it

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together cuz i think i absolutely love

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doing conferences you know it's really

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good fun than you know cuz you've done

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the the Aussie skeptics yes the whole

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weekend's a massive Matt fernet but

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you're on your feet from like seven in

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the morning till about two in the

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morning for like four days straight and

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then afterwards you haul Bryn is just

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broken and that's the position that I'm

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in now I'm think I'm starting to get my

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brain back this this week really but

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yeah it was a huge my phone so you came

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all the way from Australia for it yeah

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well it's you know it's one of those

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things it's you know you've got a

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reciprocate and also spy on things that

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we're doing well of course I mean you

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know when something works you want to

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steal it I hope you enjoyed it as well

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that it was Evan seems to have kind of

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enjoyed the whole conference I think

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yeah the vibe was was really quite good

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you know it's it was really helpful like

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one of the things I guess we'll learn

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for hours and futures have a bar very

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close by it is like the it makes the

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vibe that that much more positive

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webkinz just sit around and well we

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found that what tends to happen is

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especially people who've been to a lot

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of Quds will start ducking out a talk

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just so they can sit and kind of like

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chat and have a drink and sort of

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relaxed you in the day and really I

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think that's what we were trying to do

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with QD that the speakers I mean the

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speakers are always great fun and really

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interesting but they're really an excuse

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to get everyone together and then once

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you go in together what I'm really

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really hoping happens is that we get 556

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and people together at QED and not see

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some interesting talks but then they'll

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sit down and have a drink and maybe some

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ideals will start forming or the real

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that I've got this one piece of this

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issue you've got the other piece of it

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we can now start to see what's going on

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so it's a reason to bring skeptics

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together and say that we're all part of

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the same thing and yet that the speakers

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are all huge fun but for me that's kind

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of its not secondary but it's a

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certainly kind of two parallel competing

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interesting so I guess related to that

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some of the talk on the weekend was

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about incorporating the the bar area

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into it by live streaming or anything

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like that is that something you've guys

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have thought of um yeah we thought a bit

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but the thing is that means that when

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you're in the bar and you get to see all

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the talks while stay in the bar that's

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great but what it means the flip side is

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that the speaker doesn't get an audience

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because you end up going in front of a

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massive room that could accommodate

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everyone but everyone start well it's

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fine i'll just call next door and sit in

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a bar and see it so it's really really

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important to us that you keep that that

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audience together and it's why we don't

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lie dream the event to people who can't

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make it we record the talks we put them

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out a bit afterwards could we want to

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say of being at QUT itself is this value

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you know and you want to sort of keep

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that kind of value there so yeah I don't

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have a quite gonna move to a point where

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you can sit sit in your hotel room and

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still be at the Huy do we want to

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actually get people out of bed and get

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people actually there I think it's what

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kind of methods really so you did a talk

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on the Sunday morning after a very light

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Saturday not Sunday morning is in a vein

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um so you talk was on the status of

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homeopathy in the UK um what can you

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tell me about that yeah I mean it was it

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was really nice to open QD talking about

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homeopathy on the sunday because the

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first q you did I opened talking about

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the homeopathy that was the fur that was

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the second 1023 company in the the

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International or the doors which

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obviously Australia was a big part of

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and Paul Willis was even in Antarctica

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putting a dot on the map which I told

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her all the time but ever since then for

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the last five years I've been talking

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about the the talks that have been given

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a kind of cool minute of the 10 23 camp

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in so I thought to be really interesting

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to do a talk that started with 10 23 and

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looks at the last five years of kind of

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homeopathy activism and an in particular

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the last year because it's something

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with good thinking society the charity

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that I work for it's something we've

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really been focusing on since I started

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working for them just over a year ago

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this was kind of a big folks of hours of

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what can we do to first of all

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understand

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what's going on in homeopathy in the UK

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how much money we spending and that was

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it it seems like a simple question how

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much money does the UK come and spend on

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homeopathy it turns out to a really

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complicated question you got to ask

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every different region of the country

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and even though we're a tiny country

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compared to Australia we split into two

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hundred eleven different regions and sub

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regions and all sorts of things and none

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of them have any singular oversight so

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nobody knows what anyone else is doing

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and there's no one department of health

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that says that well there is a

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department health but they don't look at

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the spends everywhere and they don't

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sort of see what's being commissioned at

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a national level so the only way to know

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that figures you got to ask everyone

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individually and kill it those figures

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and then hope that they've all

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interpreted you question the right way

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and so I spent about three or four

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months really going at the depths of how

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to get these figures together and I

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think I've got a reason handle that's

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one of the things that assured was kind

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of here's a map of the UK and when we

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talk about homeopathy being funded on

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the UK you look at the map and it's

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pretty clear that we don't fund

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homeopathy in the UK we fund it in about

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four small areas to about fifteen

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percent of areas of the country actually

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fund it and the rest don't so we're

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00:10:43,150 --> 00:10:41,150
already eighty five percent clear of

272
00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:43,160
homeopathy and we're just now trying to

273
00:10:46,540 --> 00:10:44,630
sort of dislodge that extra fifteen

274
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,550
percent which is kind of what the rest

275
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:48,560
of our kind of campaign our activism has

276
00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:50,330
been all about going on that fifteen

277
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:52,430
percent you part of you or your

278
00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:54,650
presentation show just how much is

279
00:11:00,340 --> 00:10:56,510
actually being spent on just that

280
00:11:02,350 --> 00:11:00,350
fifteen percent you know how much is

281
00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:02,360
being spent yeah well I mean again it's

282
00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:04,790
a tricky thing to be sure about so we

283
00:11:09,220 --> 00:11:07,160
know that olimpo where I live in the

284
00:11:11,260 --> 00:11:09,230
surrounding areas it's about 60,000

285
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:11,270
pounds ago which is it's a it's a bit

286
00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:14,090
it's not huge but it's still annoying in

287
00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:16,790
Newcastle it's 250 pounds ago which is

288
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:18,500
nothing then one part Newcastle spent

289
00:11:22,690 --> 00:11:21,410
three pounds 27 a year on homeopathy and

290
00:11:25,090 --> 00:11:22,700
I pointed out my presentation that I

291
00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:25,100
spent more than that every single yarn I

292
00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:27,080
know that it's nonsense so that's not

293
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:28,100
the worst thing but then you go down to

294
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:30,200
Bristol the Bristol area they spent

295
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:32,570
quarter million pounds ER he got to

296
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:34,850
Glasgow and that's somewhere between 1.3

297
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,130
and 1.7 million pounds ago and then you

298
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:39,200
get to London and we have no idea

299
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,690
because no matter who I asked involved

300
00:11:45,730 --> 00:11:43,760
in the the chain of supplying homeopathy

301
00:11:47,260 --> 00:11:45,740
from the NHS to

302
00:11:49,870 --> 00:11:47,270
the homeopathic hospital which we have

303
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:49,880
to the supplies everybody you ask this

304
00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:51,650
it we don't have those figures we can't

305
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:52,910
know those figures those figures are

306
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:54,770
essentially unknowable so there's this

307
00:11:58,810 --> 00:11:57,050
big black hole in our figures so we've

308
00:12:01,810 --> 00:11:58,820
managed to get to at least two million

309
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:01,820
pounds ago but it could be upwards to at

310
00:12:05,470 --> 00:12:03,530
an estimate maybe five million pounds

311
00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:05,480
ago as far as i can tell them we're

312
00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:06,830
still trying to get those figures out of

313
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:08,300
London right now and hopefully you'll

314
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:10,130
get somewhere as we keep putting

315
00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:12,200
pressure on really yes I guess for our

316
00:12:18,130 --> 00:12:16,070
far Ozzy listeners that's anywhere

317
00:12:20,590 --> 00:12:18,140
between about 10 and 15 million

318
00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:20,600
australian dollars yeah well between sup

319
00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:24,110
maybe five and ten I guess yeah five

320
00:12:27,850 --> 00:12:26,630
intense off so 225 we go 5 to 10 ish

321
00:12:30,730 --> 00:12:27,860
something like that it's one of those

322
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,740
things I kind of conversion rich it's

323
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:32,000
far too much I mean this is a figure

324
00:12:36,190 --> 00:12:33,770
that so if you look even at Newcastle

325
00:12:38,260 --> 00:12:36,200
250 pounds a year nothing at all but the

326
00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:38,270
problem is it's not just the actual

327
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:39,500
value and the actual value is not

328
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:41,270
insignificant between two and five

329
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,770
million pounds a year for and 10 million

330
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:44,240
dollars a year that's money that could

331
00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:46,010
be spent on something better you know on

332
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:47,990
making sure that we have shorter waiting

333
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:50,000
lists and we got repair nurses better

334
00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:51,740
are we that there are people who we've

335
00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:53,780
heard from who've had treatments turned

336
00:12:57,850 --> 00:12:56,510
down for budgetary reasons every one of

337
00:12:59,530 --> 00:12:57,860
those people can point to the spend and

338
00:13:01,150 --> 00:12:59,540
homeopathy and say well what's that all

339
00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:01,160
about you know I've been I'm not allowed

340
00:13:05,950 --> 00:13:03,350
this thing that the doctor said I would

341
00:13:07,450 --> 00:13:05,960
could use but I can't have it because

342
00:13:09,250 --> 00:13:07,460
they have got the money and yet we're

343
00:13:10,930 --> 00:13:09,260
throwing money at sugar pills that we

344
00:13:12,610 --> 00:13:10,940
know full well doesn't do anything that

345
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:12,620
the government has commissioned a report

346
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:15,050
in 2010 that came up the conclusion that

347
00:13:19,060 --> 00:13:17,510
it does nothing obviously your yoga room

348
00:13:21,850 --> 00:13:19,070
has come with incredibly comprehensive

349
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:21,860
report this year again highlighting it

350
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:22,970
does nothing it's time to get rid of

351
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:24,890
that so the spend itself that money

352
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:26,810
could go better even when it's a small

353
00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:28,730
amount to spend the irritating thing is

354
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:30,740
it's the symbolic nature of that because

355
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:32,090
in Newcastle you can probably go into a

356
00:13:35,950 --> 00:13:34,160
homeopath and if you ask them does this

357
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:35,960
work they could legitimately tell you

358
00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:38,810
well it's on the NHS yeah and even if it

359
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:41,030
just means that that's 250 pounds ago in

360
00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:44,210
that entire city and areas around it the

361
00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:46,100
fact that it's still technically true

362
00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:47,540
that you can get homeopathy on the NHS

363
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:49,700
in the northeast of England is enough to

364
00:13:53,860 --> 00:13:51,980
give it that unju legitimacy and I think

365
00:13:56,350 --> 00:13:53,870
this is the real problem for us that the

366
00:13:59,230 --> 00:13:56,360
NHS will fund this so people say that

367
00:14:01,000 --> 00:13:59,240
our pharmacies have home

368
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:01,010
up at the anomaly you've been in Boots I

369
00:14:05,260 --> 00:14:04,130
look our chemist recently boots will

370
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:05,270
have homeopathy I mean they've got

371
00:14:09,610 --> 00:14:07,610
everything else yeah it's a single

372
00:14:12,699 --> 00:14:09,620
biggest kind of covers you ever seen

373
00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:12,709
largest chemist like camera shop I think

374
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,660
I've ever saying and we've got some

375
00:14:19,410 --> 00:14:17,120
large ones in Australia but seriously

376
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:19,420
this the one here in Liverpool was

377
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:21,890
ridiculous they are actually it's like a

378
00:14:24,579 --> 00:14:23,570
whole sort of massive super mark and a

379
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:24,589
hive and log of or something like that

380
00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:25,910
they're it but this is the thing is that

381
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:26,950
they're there because they were a

382
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:30,110
incredibly trusted brand that became on

383
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,279
it was on every high street and people

384
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:32,720
knew that you going to boot and get good

385
00:14:36,579 --> 00:14:34,850
health advice and yet they're selling

386
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,589
sugar pills so the problem is people

387
00:14:39,790 --> 00:14:38,480
will go into boots and they'll see

388
00:14:41,019 --> 00:14:39,800
homeopathy on the shelf and they'll

389
00:14:42,699 --> 00:14:41,029
assume that means then it must work

390
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:42,709
because nobody's telling him it doesn't

391
00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:44,450
and in fact if you speak to some of the

392
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:46,670
employees of boots and they're very much

393
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:47,930
differs depending on which boots you in

394
00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:49,490
but I've been around the country doing

395
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:51,020
skeptics in the pub talk so I always pop

396
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:52,430
in to boot and asking about homeopathic

397
00:14:57,250 --> 00:14:54,470
here fever remedies and I've may be

398
00:14:58,810 --> 00:14:57,260
asked in 15 or 20 boots and the range of

399
00:15:00,220 --> 00:14:58,820
opinions you get the range of advice you

400
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:00,230
get from people whose job it is to give

401
00:15:04,329 --> 00:15:02,110
you advice ranges all the way from

402
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:04,339
someone saying that well homeopathy

403
00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:06,050
thinks the more you diluted the stronger

404
00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:09,070
it gets and that's theoretically week

405
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:11,000
because obviously don't offend you

406
00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:12,770
because it's their job um but the other

407
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:14,750
side of it is you know I was in one and

408
00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:16,970
I was told that it works just like a

409
00:15:20,199 --> 00:15:18,529
vaccine you give someone a little bit of

410
00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:20,209
something and it'll kind of make them

411
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:21,380
better and to be honest it's not

412
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:23,510
chemical beer so given the choice I'd

413
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,310
always choose is because it's natural

414
00:15:27,819 --> 00:15:26,480
and it worked and they were just making

415
00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,829
out that it actually worked and I think

416
00:15:30,460 --> 00:15:29,120
she probably did believe it worked

417
00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:30,470
whether she told him to stood it I don't

418
00:15:36,190 --> 00:15:34,190
know so boots does have this range of

419
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:36,200
dodgy advice that's there all this whole

420
00:15:40,630 --> 00:15:37,850
range of ice I cause from good to dodgy

421
00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:40,640
and the problem is boots will not sell

422
00:15:44,350 --> 00:15:42,950
you something for something serious they

423
00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:44,360
won't sell you homeopathy for something

424
00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:45,649
serious they absolutely want they'll

425
00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:47,209
sell you it for headaches and bruising

426
00:15:51,540 --> 00:15:49,700
and hair fever I get here favor it's

427
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:51,550
pretty annoying but it's not gonna

428
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:53,420
detrimentally affect my health on the

429
00:15:57,790 --> 00:15:55,040
long term but the problem is that

430
00:15:58,990 --> 00:15:57,800
because people go into boot and see

431
00:16:00,970 --> 00:15:59,000
homeopathy there and because they note

432
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:00,980
on the NHS maybe the next time they're

433
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:02,810
ill they see a homeopath because you've

434
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:04,130
seen that word around they've got a kind

435
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:06,110
of a familiarity with that word and we

436
00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:07,610
know that homeopaths will give you

437
00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:08,750
dangerous advice and this is something

438
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:09,710
else that we've been

439
00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:13,310
really looking into it so you've also

440
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:15,710
part of your talk you you type spoke

441
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:17,750
about your what specific actions you're

442
00:16:22,450 --> 00:16:20,510
taking in Liverpool by yourself and the

443
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:22,460
good thinking society can you tell me a

444
00:16:25,930 --> 00:16:24,050
little bit about what you guys are doing

445
00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:25,940
here specifically yeah absolutely so

446
00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:27,350
this has been a really big campaign for

447
00:16:31,630 --> 00:16:30,020
us and it's kind of the first thing that

448
00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:31,640
we've done really publicly that shows

449
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:33,560
the the pragmatic and systematic

450
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,610
approach that we're trying to take to

451
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:36,560
skepticism because we asked all around

452
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:37,610
the country to figure out how much you

453
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:39,740
spent we've got our fingers back and so

454
00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:41,210
well that's that's interesting you know

455
00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:42,950
now we know that that's useful its data

456
00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:44,630
but we're not going to stop at just

457
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:46,460
knowledge we need to take that an extra

458
00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:48,920
step so we looked at where there were

459
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:50,990
clusters would be of these spends these

460
00:16:53,890 --> 00:16:52,190
fifteen percent where their stills

461
00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:53,900
funded and then we looked at the

462
00:16:58,840 --> 00:16:56,870
contract decisions so basically um when

463
00:17:00,820 --> 00:16:58,850
someone signs a new contract to ER to

464
00:17:03,130 --> 00:17:00,830
fund homeopathy in this country you get

465
00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:03,140
three months to review that decision as

466
00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:04,790
a member of the public if it's a if it's

467
00:17:08,620 --> 00:17:07,310
government money being spent on it so I

468
00:17:10,180 --> 00:17:08,630
think if you think that it's unlawful

469
00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:10,190
you can take them to a judicial review

470
00:17:14,350 --> 00:17:12,230
which is a very complicated very kind of

471
00:17:16,810 --> 00:17:14,360
weighty legal procedure but it's a very

472
00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:16,820
kind of thorough legal procedure so we

473
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:19,160
found that in december of last year

474
00:17:23,199 --> 00:17:20,930
liverpool signed a new contract to

475
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:23,209
commission homeopathy that started that

476
00:17:26,290 --> 00:17:25,070
the timer ticking we have three months

477
00:17:28,810 --> 00:17:26,300
to figure out what occurs would look

478
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:28,820
like to make our case and submitted so

479
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:30,290
we started just pulling documents

480
00:17:33,730 --> 00:17:31,850
anywhere we could about Liverpool I went

481
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:33,740
back over about two years worth of

482
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:37,310
meeting agendas and minutes and we set

483
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:38,960
them emails using free information to

484
00:17:42,610 --> 00:17:40,490
say when you've spoken about this issue

485
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:42,620
in internal conversations in internal

486
00:17:46,750 --> 00:17:44,510
email exchanges we need to see all of

487
00:17:48,550 --> 00:17:46,760
that so we did all that we had to look

488
00:17:50,620 --> 00:17:48,560
at all their policies and we found

489
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,630
something really interesting so the

490
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:53,120
start 2014 the Commission this review to

491
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:53,810
say here are five different

492
00:17:57,910 --> 00:17:55,490
complementary therapies that we're

493
00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:57,920
looking to stop funding sorry that we're

494
00:18:00,220 --> 00:17:58,910
looking to see whether we should fund or

495
00:18:01,810 --> 00:18:00,230
not at the end of that review three

496
00:18:03,580 --> 00:18:01,820
months in they came back and said

497
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,590
actually we've looked at it you

498
00:18:07,150 --> 00:18:05,600
shouldn't be funding it we propose that

499
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:07,160
we stop funding these five different

500
00:18:10,270 --> 00:18:09,290
therapies including homeopathy and then

501
00:18:11,770 --> 00:18:10,280
they said right we've got that result

502
00:18:13,060 --> 00:18:11,780
we're going to put the idea that we're

503
00:18:14,050 --> 00:18:13,070
going to stop funding it we're gonna put

504
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:14,060
that out to the public and see what the

505
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:16,250
public thing four months later got a

506
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,810
public consultation where anyone any

507
00:18:22,570 --> 00:18:19,520
member of the public who cares be there

508
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:22,580
homeopathic patient skeptic anyone could

509
00:18:25,389 --> 00:18:24,080
offer their advice on whether they

510
00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:25,399
should or shouldn't where they should

511
00:18:29,139 --> 00:18:27,590
accept the the recommendation to stop

512
00:18:31,570 --> 00:18:29,149
funding homeopathy and at the end

513
00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:31,580
moments they had six responses none of

514
00:18:34,029 --> 00:18:32,840
them mentioned homie up at the early

515
00:18:36,370 --> 00:18:34,039
point most amor about the other

516
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,380
therapies things are that so it seemed

517
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:38,000
pretty clear that there wasn't a good

518
00:18:41,649 --> 00:18:39,140
reason to that they were recommend to

519
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:41,659
get rid of it and people weren't that

520
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:44,450
passionate about it and yet in december

521
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:46,130
two thousand eight aside to Commissioner

522
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:48,049
anywhere they turned all their other

523
00:18:51,970 --> 00:18:50,000
decision making and advice completely on

524
00:18:55,269 --> 00:18:51,980
its head so we wrote an entire kind of

525
00:18:57,129 --> 00:18:55,279
judicial review pointing out that you

526
00:18:58,899 --> 00:18:57,139
were consulting about whether to get rid

527
00:19:00,639 --> 00:18:58,909
of it and now you've decided to fund it

528
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:00,649
and you've gone you've done a 180 on all

529
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:02,570
the advice they seemed to us to be

530
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:04,490
unlawful we also kind of pointed out a

531
00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:05,570
few of the things so they're saying

532
00:19:08,649 --> 00:19:06,740
things like it's about patient

533
00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:08,659
satisfaction and we know that patient

534
00:19:11,379 --> 00:19:10,159
satisfaction isn't good enough reason to

535
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:11,389
give patients something that doesn't

536
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:12,710
work because you can make sure the

537
00:19:16,810 --> 00:19:15,110
patients can be very very satisfied with

538
00:19:18,299 --> 00:19:16,820
the level of service to getting if they

539
00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:18,309
don't know that that service is [\h__\h]

540
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:20,990
what did you say you know how satisfied

541
00:19:24,430 --> 00:19:22,490
are you with a thing I just give you by

542
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:24,440
the way it's just sugar I'm pretending

543
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:26,809
it'll work they get a lot less satisfied

544
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:28,490
you know it's not to get a bit annoyed

545
00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:29,929
yeah exactly and it's a same with

546
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:31,220
patient choice people say what needs to

547
00:19:33,850 --> 00:19:32,330
be vailable patient choice and we

548
00:19:36,220 --> 00:19:33,860
absolutely believe that patient choice

549
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:36,230
is crucial but you can't give someone a

550
00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:37,610
choice means something that works and

551
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,529
something that doesn't and not tell them

552
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:41,120
which is which and that still be a

553
00:19:45,250 --> 00:19:43,010
choice it's not a choice at all you know

554
00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:45,260
this it speaks it raises real questions

555
00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:47,630
about the nature informed consent if

556
00:19:51,159 --> 00:19:49,580
you've given someone a remedy that you

557
00:19:52,659 --> 00:19:51,169
know does nothing and you're not telling

558
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,669
them it does nothing that's not given

559
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:53,840
them the information that they need to

560
00:19:57,850 --> 00:19:55,760
America a good decision and people

561
00:19:59,500 --> 00:19:57,860
aren't experts I'm no experts and it's

562
00:20:02,080 --> 00:19:59,510
important that we're given the right

563
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:02,090
information to make the decisions so

564
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:02,960
they laid out all these different

565
00:20:06,909 --> 00:20:04,940
reasons as to why they were going to

566
00:20:10,659 --> 00:20:06,919
fund it we kind of counted all those may

567
00:20:12,970 --> 00:20:10,669
in early April eventually said actually

568
00:20:14,889 --> 00:20:12,980
you know what we concede we can see that

569
00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:14,899
some people might think that there were

570
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:16,580
flaws in our decision making process

571
00:20:20,259 --> 00:20:18,350
which is a fantastic way of wording

572
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:20,269
things I don't think it's like we're not

573
00:20:25,870 --> 00:20:24,049
wrong but we are gonna stop we can see

574
00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:25,880
how other people might think we were

575
00:20:28,930 --> 00:20:27,380
right yeah exactly which is feel

576
00:20:30,639 --> 00:20:28,940
politically that's kind of a that's

577
00:20:32,139 --> 00:20:30,649
probably the most sensible so I can

578
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:32,149
completely understand that and they have

579
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:33,289
an admittedly fault and we wouldn't want

580
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:35,570
to say that they're a bit of me fault I

581
00:20:37,779 --> 00:20:36,320
they won't want to give them

582
00:20:38,980 --> 00:20:37,789
Russian but the good thing is it means

583
00:20:40,779 --> 00:20:38,990
they've now said after the election

584
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,789
which which is coming up in just over a

585
00:20:43,870 --> 00:20:43,039
week now um they said we're going to go

586
00:20:45,879 --> 00:20:43,880
back and we're going to do the

587
00:20:46,990 --> 00:20:45,889
consultation again and we know that in

588
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:47,000
that consultation it's gonna be very

589
00:20:50,259 --> 00:20:49,130
very hard for them to use the arguments

590
00:20:52,749 --> 00:20:50,269
of used last time because we've said

591
00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:52,759
those arguments were weaken us if we can

592
00:20:56,139 --> 00:20:54,620
offer us to feel confident putting

593
00:20:58,539 --> 00:20:56,149
together at a very expensive legal

594
00:21:00,639 --> 00:20:58,549
procedure against you so we think this

595
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:00,649
is a good shot at getting homeopathy off

596
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,710
Liverpool we can work with my local

597
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:04,880
volunteer books the most out skeptic

598
00:21:08,049 --> 00:21:06,049
society good thinking in to work with

599
00:21:09,850 --> 00:21:08,059
them to make sure we get lots of local

600
00:21:11,649 --> 00:21:09,860
people involved in that consultation

601
00:21:12,879 --> 00:21:11,659
because now we know it's happening the

602
00:21:15,249 --> 00:21:12,889
homeopath is certainly going to be there

603
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:15,259
the homeopathic lobbyists the patients

604
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:16,970
we get to then put people on the other

605
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:18,289
side and say well actually here's a big

606
00:21:21,850 --> 00:21:20,330
petition of people who think this money

607
00:21:23,289 --> 00:21:21,860
could be better spent elsewhere here's a

608
00:21:25,180 --> 00:21:23,299
lot of people who believe that evidence

609
00:21:27,580 --> 00:21:25,190
and science is important in our

610
00:21:29,919 --> 00:21:27,590
healthcare and not just choice in a

611
00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:29,929
vacuum so we should hopefully be able to

612
00:21:34,090 --> 00:21:31,990
balance out at that consultation because

613
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:34,100
what we don't want to seem is like we're

614
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:35,600
putting pressure on the commissioners

615
00:21:38,110 --> 00:21:37,220
and we don't think we are what we did is

616
00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:38,120
what we've done is we've given the

617
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:39,950
Commission as the opportunity to make a

618
00:21:43,690 --> 00:21:42,110
fair decision here and we know that

619
00:21:45,369 --> 00:21:43,700
they're under pressure from the

620
00:21:46,869 --> 00:21:45,379
homeopaths you've been banging on at

621
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,879
them for its in fact one of the reasons

622
00:21:50,289 --> 00:21:48,559
that they said they were continuing

623
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:50,299
funding was that they were worried about

624
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:53,210
the threat of legal procedures if they

625
00:21:56,529 --> 00:21:55,070
ceased funding which is not a very good

626
00:21:57,940 --> 00:21:56,539
reason to carry on spending money on

627
00:21:59,440 --> 00:21:57,950
something that doesn't work so what

628
00:22:00,490 --> 00:21:59,450
we're trying to do is to say yes you're

629
00:22:02,139 --> 00:22:00,500
gonna get all this weight from

630
00:22:04,269 --> 00:22:02,149
homeopaths but you've also got this

631
00:22:05,499 --> 00:22:04,279
weight from us and if you can just at

632
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:05,509
this point say well you got pressure

633
00:22:08,139 --> 00:22:06,710
over here pressure over there so the

634
00:22:09,460 --> 00:22:08,149
only thing we can do is step back and

635
00:22:10,659 --> 00:22:09,470
look at the evidence we're pretty

636
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:10,669
confident that the evidence is on our

637
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:12,529
side too so we're trying to balance the

638
00:22:16,629 --> 00:22:13,970
opposing forces more than anything else

639
00:22:18,940 --> 00:22:16,639
and so that that that campaign I guess

640
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:18,950
is of obviously on going in yeah it is

641
00:22:22,060 --> 00:22:20,690
so I mean it was a really significant

642
00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:22,070
step in Liverpool is really hard to kind

643
00:22:25,149 --> 00:22:23,960
of explain to people how significant is

644
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:25,159
because people think well it's Liverpool

645
00:22:28,029 --> 00:22:26,330
and they're still going to go back and

646
00:22:29,950 --> 00:22:28,039
make the decision again so have you

647
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:29,960
really done anything and what's really

648
00:22:33,779 --> 00:22:31,970
nice is that now that the media start

649
00:22:35,769 --> 00:22:33,789
pick up on this was a big national

650
00:22:38,289 --> 00:22:35,779
headlines in the Telegraph newspaper

651
00:22:40,210 --> 00:22:38,299
saying hold me off of the under review

652
00:22:41,769 --> 00:22:40,220
because of our campaign and it is under

653
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:41,779
review because what we've said is we've

654
00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:44,330
got this out of liberal ccg we think

655
00:22:47,019 --> 00:22:45,500
it's me very hard for them to make the

656
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:47,029
same decision again and now we've

657
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:49,039
written to every other CCGs clinical

658
00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:49,600
commissioning

659
00:22:52,919 --> 00:22:51,070
it's part that the small groups that

660
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:52,929
make up the NHS so we've written to all

661
00:22:56,970 --> 00:22:54,370
of the other ones that fund homeopathy

662
00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:56,980
and said look at this in Liverpool we

663
00:22:59,279 --> 00:22:58,270
want to see copies your contracts so we

664
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,289
know when you're going to renew your

665
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:01,840
contract and we won't we invite you to

666
00:23:06,289 --> 00:23:03,970
consider what we're doing because what

667
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,299
we really like is for them to be able to

668
00:23:10,490 --> 00:23:08,559
reconsider what they're doing before we

669
00:23:12,919 --> 00:23:10,500
have to undertake this lengthy

670
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:12,929
potentially expensive kind of thing yeah

671
00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:15,130
and we think we think this is a really

672
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:16,990
good opportunity so when we work with

673
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:19,090
skeptics all around the UK to to try and

674
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:23,440
find ways of finding locals in various

675
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:24,880
different areas we're very interested in

676
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:26,530
this and hopefully we can actually put

677
00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:28,510
our ourselves as a skeptical community

678
00:23:31,470 --> 00:23:30,280
as a voice in this argument right right

679
00:23:33,779 --> 00:23:31,480
on the map right in the middle of the

680
00:23:36,570 --> 00:23:33,789
decision-making process so did you get

681
00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:36,580
any any feelers from paper from people

682
00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:39,070
in the the other areas during QA days so

683
00:23:43,470 --> 00:23:41,320
get anyone from Newcastle yeah well we

684
00:23:44,820 --> 00:23:43,480
think there's contact what was great was

685
00:23:46,350 --> 00:23:44,830
you get up in front of an audience of

686
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:46,360
fire and fifty six hundred people and

687
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:47,710
you talk about this you talk about why

688
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:49,090
you think this matters and the work

689
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:50,650
you're doing and how exciting it is when

690
00:23:53,490 --> 00:23:52,090
you get a victory and immediately got

691
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:53,500
off stage you get people coming up to

692
00:23:56,159 --> 00:23:54,610
you so you have people saying oh you

693
00:23:57,539 --> 00:23:56,169
need those figures I think I can help

694
00:23:59,010 --> 00:23:57,549
you need to get this piece of

695
00:24:01,080 --> 00:23:59,020
information up this pharmacy new you

696
00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:01,090
need a doctor to do it I'm a doctor tell

697
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:02,830
me how it can help so I think what so

698
00:24:06,029 --> 00:24:04,090
many people in skeptical immunity or are

699
00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:06,039
looking for is a campaign to get behind

700
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,470
and once you've got that idea people

701
00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:10,480
like right I think I know how I can use

702
00:24:13,620 --> 00:24:12,460
my skill set to support that campaign

703
00:24:15,870 --> 00:24:13,630
and that's what we're really trying to

704
00:24:19,049 --> 00:24:15,880
do with good thinking is to be that kind

705
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:19,059
of lightning rod for people's talents so

706
00:24:21,870 --> 00:24:20,110
we're not here to tell anybody what to

707
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:21,880
do but we're here to go we've got this

708
00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:23,710
idea what do you think you could do to

709
00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:25,299
help and do you want to help and I think

710
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:27,190
we do that then people will naturally

711
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:29,020
say well I i do this i do that we had a

712
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:30,970
guy who made our intro video of QED

713
00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:32,980
we're saying all that deity had there's

714
00:24:36,210 --> 00:24:35,020
really interesting let's get out there

715
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:36,220
as white as possible maybe you could

716
00:24:39,630 --> 00:24:37,570
start putting the other a video that the

717
00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:39,640
30 second one minute infographic video

718
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:41,320
that will just explain all these stats

719
00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:42,970
in a really easy where so you can stand

720
00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:44,230
up to people and people can watch it is

721
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:46,600
very very easily comprehend so we need

722
00:24:49,919 --> 00:24:47,830
all sorts of skills we can solve

723
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:49,929
coalesce them around and hopefully in

724
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:51,850
the middle we can solve network enough

725
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:55,809
to make this a coherent campaign so I

726
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:58,240
guess on the lighter side of your talk

727
00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:01,600
yeah you you spoke about some of the

728
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:02,800
weider homeopath

729
00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:05,110
remedies which you are able to get from

730
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:12,040
a provider here in the UK yeah yeah yeah

731
00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:13,510
I know you're referring to yes so

732
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:15,220
there's this amazing thing so in part of

733
00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:16,000
my kind of Freedom of Information

734
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:18,040
request I was asking about not only how

735
00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:19,510
much do you spend but where do you get

736
00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:21,340
it from we got Bristol homeopathic

737
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:23,140
hospital patek off to absolutely

738
00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:24,850
ludicrous idea and they were getting

739
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:26,620
their remedies about 30,000 pounds ago

740
00:25:29,970 --> 00:25:28,330
from Glasgow homeopathic hospital who

741
00:25:31,890 --> 00:25:29,980
got them from freeman's homeopathic

742
00:25:32,850 --> 00:25:31,900
pharmacy so that's what to Glasgow they

743
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:32,860
have an exclusive contract with

744
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:35,290
freeman's homeopathic pharmacy so I

745
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:36,850
called Freeman's could I look at a

746
00:25:41,370 --> 00:25:38,500
website and they've got the longest list

747
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:41,380
of just crazy stuff on there absolutely

748
00:25:45,570 --> 00:25:43,090
insane stuff it really really is it's

749
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,580
homeopathic blue the color blue you know

750
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:47,440
homeopathic MRI scan where they've taken

751
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:49,570
some water and put it in an MRI scan and

752
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:51,190
then they dilute that you know hung

753
00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:53,290
havoc sunlight where they put water in

754
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:56,830
sunlight absolutely bizarre but I formed

755
00:25:59,790 --> 00:25:57,850
them up and thought are they really

756
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,800
gonna sell you know homeopathic asbestos

757
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:02,080
I mean I think uranium you know I hope

758
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:03,430
you panic beetle are there really going

759
00:26:06,510 --> 00:26:05,500
to sell you this stuff um so I had them

760
00:26:08,730 --> 00:26:06,520
on the phone actually played the the

761
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,740
phone conversation during my cutie talk

762
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,240
i'm hoping to release the video of it

763
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:12,640
soon we're asking about the holy [\h__\h]

764
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:14,620
owl which on there i think was a horned

765
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:16,230
owl and I was particularly interested in

766
00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:18,880
and I said so you've got a home having a

767
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:20,140
LAN there how do you make a holy perfect

768
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,210
remedy from an owl they said well you

769
00:26:25,530 --> 00:26:24,400
take the feathers and then you dilute it

770
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:25,540
in that's kind of how you do put the

771
00:26:28,860 --> 00:26:26,770
feathers in water use that water and

772
00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:28,870
diluted are saying is that for people

773
00:26:32,550 --> 00:26:31,270
who are allergic to owls and yeah when

774
00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:32,560
it could be if you like you trials but

775
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:34,270
mainly it's for people who've taken on

776
00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:37,330
the characteristics of an hell I was

777
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:38,830
like really is that what does that mean

778
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:41,050
[\h__\h] well you might not be able to sleep

779
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:44,710
at night or rum or because you can take

780
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:47,020
on the characteristics of an hour that's

781
00:26:51,570 --> 00:26:49,570
not being an owl that's insomnia it's

782
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:51,580
not being a no but she didn't tell me

783
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:52,810
you can't buy it with our prescription

784
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:54,550
and I kind of took a word for it and

785
00:26:57,630 --> 00:26:55,840
then a couple weeks later I thought is

786
00:26:59,310 --> 00:26:57,640
that true so I got back in touch and i

787
00:27:00,930 --> 00:26:59,320
bought some homeopathic owl that i had

788
00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:00,940
with me on the weekend and i was holding

789
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:02,860
it up in front of the audience i also

790
00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:04,600
had from another pharmacy homeopathic

791
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:06,940
sunlight for another one i had hung

792
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:09,790
about an x-ray and then it gets it as

793
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:11,230
far as we can tell these well unlicensed

794
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:13,030
medicine so there is not a license to

795
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:14,710
sell these in the UK because the like

796
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:16,410
the way the licensing works you

797
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:19,020
a one-on-one consultation with either a

798
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:20,700
registered medical expert or someone

799
00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:23,580
with a very specific license to do this

800
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:25,020
one on one consultation and from there

801
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:26,370
you have to make a remedy up for them

802
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:28,200
actually create one there so you can't

803
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:29,400
sell them off the shelf you can't see

804
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,530
without talking to me in person which I

805
00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:33,120
didn't do I bought them off the off the

806
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:34,430
internet so as far as I can tell this is

807
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,770
unlicensed it's unlawful and it's

808
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:39,360
practicing medicine without a license

809
00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:40,260
and that's mean we're really really

810
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:41,820
interested in but it gets really bad

811
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:43,110
because one of the ones I bought which

812
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:44,640
is a fairly standard homeopathic

813
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:47,490
unlicensed remedy was from nutri centre

814
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:49,650
which is a health food chain owned by

815
00:27:54,380 --> 00:27:52,890
Tesco the major supermarkets so the

816
00:27:56,570 --> 00:27:54,390
biggest supermarket chain pretty much in

817
00:27:59,030 --> 00:27:56,580
this country sells unlicensed medicine

818
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,040
in an unlawful act which is incredible

819
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:01,200
and I also bought and this is the

820
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:02,610
product of us the worst others are from

821
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:04,170
a homepath expire online about

822
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:05,970
homeopathic diabetes medicine this just

823
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:07,320
shows you that people are still doing

824
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:10,170
this for really dangerous stuff so this

825
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:11,310
is another area that we're kind of

826
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:13,590
looking at but yeah I think I'll carrier

827
00:28:17,030 --> 00:28:14,820
must carry around my home you buy the

828
00:28:20,110 --> 00:28:17,040
owl as often as possible make sure you

829
00:28:22,670 --> 00:28:20,120
stay away from those long nights exactly

830
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:22,680
um well thank you very much for speaking

831
00:28:26,780 --> 00:28:25,110
to us today Michael um it's a pleasure

832
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:26,790
yeah and if people want to find out more

833
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:28,020
about our camp in if you got a good

834
00:28:31,370 --> 00:28:30,510
thinking society org you'll find out

835
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:31,380
there at the mall were kind of

836
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:33,390
fundraising to help us kind of fund

837
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:35,010
further legal battles and things out

838
00:28:37,550 --> 00:28:36,330
that we've got a just giving page so if

839
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:37,560
you've got a good thinking slightly told

840
00:28:41,420 --> 00:28:38,910
you you should be able to find all of

841
00:28:59,140 --> 00:28:41,430
that there and you guys should help out

842
00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:02,000
welcome to a week in science from RI oz

843
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:04,760
bringing you the size you needs know

844
00:29:10,490 --> 00:29:08,070
around one in 20 children and one in 50

845
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:10,500
adults have food allergies and there's

846
00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:12,810
also allergies to bee stings pollen and

847
00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:15,240
pet hair but what actually happens when

848
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,830
you have an allergic simply put an

849
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:24,720
allergic reaction is when your immune

850
00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:26,250
system reacts to something in the

851
00:29:31,130 --> 00:29:28,340
environment which is normally harmless

852
00:29:33,130 --> 00:29:31,140
the best understood allergic reaction

853
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:33,140
involves molecules in the immune system

854
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:36,810
called antibodies when the allergen the

855
00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:38,730
substance causing the allergic reaction

856
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:40,590
enters the body the immune system

857
00:29:45,890 --> 00:29:43,530
activates and the antibodies bind to the

858
00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:45,900
allergen the antibody most commonly

859
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:48,270
involved in allergic reactions is called

860
00:29:54,290 --> 00:29:52,320
IgE when there is enough IgE binding to

861
00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:54,300
the allergen immune cells called

862
00:29:59,270 --> 00:29:57,180
Marcel's start releasing histamine which

863
00:30:01,460 --> 00:29:59,280
results in inflammation and other

864
00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:01,470
chemicals which ramp up the immune

865
00:30:06,350 --> 00:30:04,350
system response the result is a large

866
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:06,360
immune system response causing

867
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:08,670
inflammation and swelling tightening of

868
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:11,340
the airway muscles and depression of the

869
00:30:18,830 --> 00:30:16,110
heart muscles hospital admissions for

870
00:30:20,750 --> 00:30:18,840
severe allergic reactions have doubled

871
00:30:22,820 --> 00:30:20,760
in Australia over the last decade and

872
00:30:25,060 --> 00:30:22,830
hospital admissions for children with

873
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,070
food allergies have gone up even higher

874
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,080
there are some suggestions for why this

875
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:30,480
increase has occurred it may be that

876
00:30:35,270 --> 00:30:32,490
we're being too hygienic and not

877
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:35,280
exposing children to as many infectious

878
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:37,770
agents so the immune system is instead

879
00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:40,110
being active against more allergens

880
00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,630
another hypothesis is that it could be

881
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:44,820
caused by delaying introduction of

882
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:47,580
possible allergen foods such as nuts and

883
00:30:53,150 --> 00:30:50,630
eggs into a child's diet rather than

884
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:53,160
desensitizing their immune systems early

885
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,130
and now for fast facts about allergic

886
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:01,140
children can grow out of some food

887
00:31:06,029 --> 00:31:03,610
allergies including milk or eggs but

888
00:31:08,130 --> 00:31:06,039
less commonly grow out of seafood or nut

889
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:08,140
allergies you can also develop allergies

890
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:10,809
later in life and unfortunately there's

891
00:31:15,659 --> 00:31:13,030
no definitive reason why this occurs

892
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:15,669
there is no evidence that restricting a

893
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:17,289
mother's diet during pregnancy or

894
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:19,570
breastfeeding reduces the risk of a

895
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:21,809
child developing food allergies and

896
00:31:26,430 --> 00:31:24,159
someone having a serious allergic

897
00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:26,440
reaction should be given an epinephrine

898
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:28,780
injection which counteracts the more

899
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:31,450
dangerous symptoms that's it for this a

900
00:31:37,919 --> 00:31:33,520
week in science for more about allergies

901
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:37,929
go to the our oils website our iau sog

902
00:31:44,430 --> 00:31:41,230
you follow us on twitter at RI oz and

903
00:32:04,169 --> 00:31:44,440
like us on facebook i'm paul willis and

904
00:32:06,810 --> 00:32:04,179
we'll catch you next week you can always

905
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:06,820
count on the skeptics in canberra the

906
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,320
Canberra skeptics come up with some good

907
00:32:13,529 --> 00:32:11,200
talks free talks for the general public

908
00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:13,539
and coming up on the fifteenth of made

909
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:17,860
starting time at 6pm location Ainsley

910
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:19,870
football club in wakefield in the acct

911
00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:23,140
our very own a run so give skeptic zone

912
00:32:27,620 --> 00:32:25,390
reporter and president of Australian

913
00:32:31,529 --> 00:32:27,630
skeptics the topic of his talk will be

914
00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:31,539
unscathed us ism in education sounds

915
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:32,740
like an interesting talk and that will

916
00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:37,210
be followed by dinner RSVP for the

917
00:32:42,090 --> 00:32:39,460
dinner sent an email to mail and a

918
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:42,100
camera skeptics dog today you later on

919
00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:43,450
in the year we have some more talks

920
00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:47,049
coming up dr. Michael Smithson will be

921
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:49,780
talking on the fifteenth of June a talk

922
00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:53,260
entitled when can ignorance be good for

923
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,360
you

924
00:33:00,370 --> 00:32:56,880
hmm I don't know and then on the

925
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:00,380
thirteenth of July we have Laura Nichols

926
00:33:07,910 --> 00:33:04,410
with her talk not just dollars the

927
00:33:11,510 --> 00:33:07,920
hidden reason d'azur of the art forger

928
00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:11,520
hmm the admission is free which is good

929
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,020
because you normally have to pay with

930
00:33:17,030 --> 00:33:15,360
the counterfeit money so lots of

931
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:17,040
interesting talks coming up for the

932
00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:19,530
Canberra skeptics head to Canberra

933
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:22,470
skeptics all we've got a you for more

934
00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:38,370
information what we want is some more

935
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:52,320
hello this is Joe alabaster

936
00:33:57,039 --> 00:33:55,149
the media has been reporting that a very

937
00:33:59,529 --> 00:33:57,049
sad and rubber distressing event has

938
00:34:01,330 --> 00:33:59,539
taken place in Sydney this week in which

939
00:34:03,250 --> 00:34:01,340
a seven-year-old boy whose parents

940
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:03,260
brought him to the seminar of a visiting

941
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:05,510
practitioner of alternative medicine has

942
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:06,890
died the evening following his

943
00:34:12,849 --> 00:34:08,990
attendance of a beta and lounging

944
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:12,859
self-healing workshop the boy who it is

945
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:15,230
understood had diabetes attended a

946
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:17,270
workshop run by practitioner hong-chih

947
00:34:21,849 --> 00:34:20,089
Zhao who advocated some rather worrying

948
00:34:24,669 --> 00:34:21,859
methods for the treatment of medical

949
00:34:27,339 --> 00:34:24,679
conditions hong jie zhao developed what

950
00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:27,349
he refers to as paida and legend self

951
00:34:32,020 --> 00:34:29,540
healing which can be used for almost all

952
00:34:34,359 --> 00:34:32,030
diseases in which slapping and patting

953
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:34,369
the body and stretching tendons is

954
00:34:39,790 --> 00:34:37,609
claimed to promote healing gel claims

955
00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:39,800
that repeatedly slapping one part of the

956
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:42,950
body quote builds heat causing blood

957
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:45,050
vessels to expand and Chi to flow

958
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,320
strongly yang rises yen melts and

959
00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:50,720
long-held toxins and blocks are released

960
00:34:56,859 --> 00:34:54,710
and quote video testimonials on jars

961
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:56,869
website show people slapping themselves

962
00:35:00,849 --> 00:34:58,970
until they are bruised there are reports

963
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:00,859
of people vomiting and falling

964
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:03,770
unconscious testimonials also mentioned

965
00:35:08,620 --> 00:35:05,780
of parents using the slapping technique

966
00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:08,630
on their children shall who is from

967
00:35:12,839 --> 00:35:11,030
China has been touring Australia and

968
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:12,849
presenting workshops on his method

969
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:15,410
reportedly the week-long Sydney workshop

970
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,030
cost one thousand eight hundred dollars

971
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:20,000
to attend he is believed to have left

972
00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:21,830
Australia after being questioned by

973
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:23,480
police regarding the death of the

974
00:35:27,849 --> 00:35:26,210
seven-year-old boy obviously we're not

975
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:27,859
in a position to say precisely what

976
00:35:31,930 --> 00:35:30,050
happened to the boy beyond reports that

977
00:35:34,359 --> 00:35:31,940
he and his parents attended the workshop

978
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:34,369
that he was very unwell afterward and

979
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:36,530
that he passed away in an ambulance that

980
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:39,290
evening for any details beyond that and

981
00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:41,330
before we go forming any certain

982
00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:43,400
conclusions on this specific case I

983
00:35:47,609 --> 00:35:45,320
think that we must await the coroner's

984
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:47,619
investigation and subsequent report

985
00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:50,089
based on the news reports though it's

986
00:35:54,099 --> 00:35:51,980
very difficult not to have an emotional

987
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:54,109
response to this story I certainly have

988
00:35:58,450 --> 00:35:56,690
the Telegraph have reported that the boy

989
00:36:00,520 --> 00:35:58,460
was made too fast four days before the

990
00:36:02,770 --> 00:36:00,530
workshop and it is possible that his

991
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:02,780
insulin was withdrawn as part of the

992
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:05,060
pirate and Legion protocol and then

993
00:36:08,890 --> 00:36:06,680
ocean of repeatedly hitting a young

994
00:36:11,650 --> 00:36:08,900
child is frankly incredibly sickening to

995
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:11,660
me I'll check in again on this case

996
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,370
after the coroner has performed an

997
00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:15,440
investigation and their report has been

998
00:36:21,250 --> 00:36:18,350
made public until then a note for our

999
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:21,260
overseas lessness hong xin zhao is

1000
00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:23,870
scheduled to conduct workshops in sal

1001
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:26,060
health and germany later this month in

1002
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:28,730
hong kong in june in bandung in

1003
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:31,370
indonesia in june and july and then in

1004
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:34,700
seattle in the USA in august should his

1005
00:36:39,820 --> 00:36:37,280
tours still go ahead please keep an eye

1006
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:39,830
on him unfortunately he slipped under

1007
00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:42,170
the radar for us here in Australia but

1008
00:36:45,790 --> 00:36:43,580
perhaps if he is scheduled to visit

1009
00:36:48,130 --> 00:36:45,800
where you live if you're in Germany Hong

1010
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:48,140
Kong Indonesia or the United States

1011
00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:50,210
you'll be able to let people know what

1012
00:37:03,090 --> 00:36:51,620
is methods involved and there

1013
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:05,470
hi there Ross bolt here with an

1014
00:37:09,820 --> 00:37:07,280
Australian skeptics National Convention

1015
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:09,830
update this week we are excited to

1016
00:37:14,110 --> 00:37:11,450
announce our final group of speakers

1017
00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:14,120
from the USA we are joined by veteran

1018
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:16,670
skeptic campaigner Eugenie Scott we're

1019
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,530
also pleased to welcome Theo Clark in

1020
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:20,720
Chrissy Wilson Dave Hawks will be

1021
00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:22,610
joining our parenting skeptically panel

1022
00:37:26,290 --> 00:37:24,350
and I am pleased to introduce your host

1023
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:26,300
for the event imaginary friend show

1024
00:37:30,370 --> 00:37:28,730
producer Jake far Wharton and skeptical

1025
00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:30,380
activist and writer chris stevenson

1026
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:33,380
don't forget our other speakers Brian

1027
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:36,320
Schmidt Joe Nickell Susan Kovac miles

1028
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:39,410
power Lynn Kelly catan Joshi Loretta

1029
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:42,320
Marin John Cook Mel Thompson Peter

1030
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:45,050
Ellerton cigna k Nepali worland and our

1031
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:46,970
parenting skeptically panel Joe

1032
00:37:51,130 --> 00:37:49,280
alabaster Lauren Cochran and Allison

1033
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:51,140
Gaylord i'll also be giving a

1034
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:53,090
presentation make sure you arrive in

1035
00:37:57,310 --> 00:37:55,250
Brisbane early our Friday skeptic camp

1036
00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:57,320
speaker roster is fully booked with some

1037
00:38:01,210 --> 00:37:59,210
great submissions and the welcome event

1038
00:38:03,730 --> 00:38:01,220
has an evening packed with entertainment

1039
00:38:06,910 --> 00:38:03,740
tickets are on sale now at convention

1040
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:06,920
brisbane skeptics dog ensure your seat

1041
00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:09,050
at the front row with our premium and

1042
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:11,000
early bird tickets do you want to help a

1043
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:12,590
student or pension to attend the event

1044
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:15,110
you can donate a half or full concession

1045
00:38:19,060 --> 00:38:17,450
ticket the australian skeptics national

1046
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:19,070
convention will take place on the

1047
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:20,930
sixteenth to the 18th of October this

1048
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:36,250
now as I mentioned at the top of the

1049
00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:39,140
show I was lucky enough to go along to

1050
00:38:43,540 --> 00:38:42,140
the immunization advocacy workshop now

1051
00:38:45,609 --> 00:38:43,550
there's a mouthful that was at the

1052
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:45,619
University of New South Wales on the

1053
00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:48,080
twenty-eighth of April and it was so

1054
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:49,790
good to see so many of my friends turn

1055
00:38:53,890 --> 00:38:51,530
up they flew in from her all over the

1056
00:38:55,839 --> 00:38:53,900
place including from the northern rivers

1057
00:38:58,030 --> 00:38:55,849
area for up there in mulund mini which

1058
00:39:00,250 --> 00:38:58,040
we talked about from time to time Alison

1059
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:00,260
gala and Alison joins me on the line now

1060
00:39:05,650 --> 00:39:03,440
hello hello how are you I'm pretty well

1061
00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:05,660
today I'm having an interesting day it's

1062
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:07,580
wet here in Sydney and I hear on the

1063
00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:09,680
news report this morning that there's

1064
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,230
big storms heading your way yes we're

1065
00:39:16,540 --> 00:39:14,240
battening down the hatches and I know

1066
00:39:18,339 --> 00:39:16,550
what it's like when it really really

1067
00:39:20,349 --> 00:39:18,349
rains in mum and baby it's quite

1068
00:39:22,089 --> 00:39:20,359
something to see yeah it was quite a

1069
00:39:25,330 --> 00:39:22,099
drive doing the school run this morning

1070
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:25,340
let me tell you that that takes me back

1071
00:39:30,099 --> 00:39:26,930
that takes me back now let's talk about

1072
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:30,109
the day you and Heidi Robinson from the

1073
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,520
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1074
00:39:36,730 --> 00:39:33,680
group flew down together with some other

1075
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:36,740
people who did you have in tow and we

1076
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:41,210
flew down with Rachel heap and Cathy

1077
00:39:46,180 --> 00:39:44,089
McGraw who are also involved with the

1078
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:46,190
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1079
00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:49,070
group and it's it's such a good thing

1080
00:39:56,250 --> 00:39:51,470
that you did that did come in for the

1081
00:39:59,680 --> 00:39:56,260
day now this day was put on by the the

1082
00:40:01,870 --> 00:39:59,690
NHMRC center for research excellence in

1083
00:40:04,089 --> 00:40:01,880
population health research that's a

1084
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:04,099
mouthful her Public Health Association

1085
00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:06,410
and I'm just got a little booklet in

1086
00:40:11,170 --> 00:40:08,180
front of me here and i believe it was

1087
00:40:15,450 --> 00:40:11,180
sponsored by the federal government and

1088
00:40:20,220 --> 00:40:15,460
yes and what they were wanting to do was

1089
00:40:24,099 --> 00:40:20,230
address the issue of vaccine hesitancy

1090
00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:24,109
nationally in Australia but not just

1091
00:40:29,890 --> 00:40:28,220
people that are nervous about

1092
00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:29,900
vaccinations but also within the

1093
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:33,260
indigenous communities and migrant

1094
00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:35,210
communities as well so it was really

1095
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:36,740
interesting because we saw it from a

1096
00:40:41,020 --> 00:40:38,450
different perspective what an

1097
00:40:42,460 --> 00:40:41,030
interesting day it was it was the

1098
00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:42,470
morning session then we hit some morning

1099
00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:44,630
tea than the midday session and the

1100
00:40:48,559 --> 00:40:46,150
whole afternoon sessions will set

1101
00:40:50,609 --> 00:40:48,569
workshops the whole day dedicated to

1102
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:50,619
helping get the message out to

1103
00:40:56,370 --> 00:40:53,200
communities how important vaccination is

1104
00:40:58,620 --> 00:40:56,380
and as you mentioned finding ways to

1105
00:41:00,690 --> 00:40:58,630
tackle people who are hesitant about

1106
00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:00,700
vaccinations and I do like that word it

1107
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:02,950
doesn't mean they're deniers like some

1108
00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:06,010
of the people we battle who'd listen to

1109
00:41:12,029 --> 00:41:08,680
reason but they're they're probably at

1110
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:12,039
some level quite understandably hesitant

1111
00:41:16,140 --> 00:41:13,930
or questioning because of all the bad

1112
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:16,150
information they get well that's right

1113
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:20,319
and what was also good that stopped the

1114
00:41:29,339 --> 00:41:22,990
avn were involved in the day as well

1115
00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:29,349
because they are battle to eliminate the

1116
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:31,500
misinformation that's out there and if

1117
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:34,960
they carry on doing the marvelous job

1118
00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:37,930
that they are doing it makes our job a

1119
00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:39,700
lot easier when we're talking to

1120
00:41:46,349 --> 00:41:43,390
hesitant parents about vaccinating their

1121
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:46,359
families because it lessens the

1122
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:49,210
likelihood of them being fed

1123
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:51,970
misinformation and that they can then

1124
00:41:57,329 --> 00:41:53,890
get their information from credible

1125
00:41:59,010 --> 00:41:57,339
sources absolutely and stop the avian or

1126
00:42:02,460 --> 00:41:59,020
stop the Australian vaccination network

1127
00:42:04,109 --> 00:42:02,470
as they are known or oh it's interesting

1128
00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:04,119
that as our listeners know the

1129
00:42:07,230 --> 00:42:05,980
Australian vaccination Network were made

1130
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:07,240
to change your name to ascertain

1131
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:09,130
vaccination skeptics network it's

1132
00:42:12,269 --> 00:42:10,569
interesting that they got a lot of shout

1133
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:12,279
outs and a lot of mentions actually from

1134
00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:14,319
from speakers during the day and they

1135
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,470
were pointed out by one speaker who just

1136
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:19,920
escapes me alone has a great example of

1137
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:22,240
people who are really out there making a

1138
00:42:28,529 --> 00:42:23,849
difference in doing it in the right way

1139
00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:28,539
yes I'm I believe the person that made a

1140
00:42:35,309 --> 00:42:31,150
comment in that regard was a

1141
00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:35,319
pediatrician on a GP yeah um you know

1142
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:37,150
from another state and it was just so

1143
00:42:42,779 --> 00:42:40,240
lovely to hear because um you know stop

1144
00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:42,789
the avian do face a lot of criticism in

1145
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:46,950
the methods that they choose but like

1146
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:49,390
they've always said that they're only

1147
00:42:56,250 --> 00:42:53,200
there to stop we Etienne they're not

1148
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:56,260
there to advocate for vaccines they're

1149
00:42:59,579 --> 00:42:58,480
not there to offer advice or information

1150
00:43:02,729 --> 00:42:59,589
they

1151
00:43:05,459 --> 00:43:02,739
there to stop an organization and

1152
00:43:10,890 --> 00:43:05,469
similar organizations it's not just

1153
00:43:13,789 --> 00:43:10,900
limited to the avs n it so that people

1154
00:43:18,089 --> 00:43:13,799
can make informed choices collect

1155
00:43:19,709 --> 00:43:18,099
correctly absolutely and and after all

1156
00:43:21,630 --> 00:43:19,719
these years I think they're very

1157
00:43:23,789 --> 00:43:21,640
effective and even we can see that but

1158
00:43:26,339 --> 00:43:23,799
what I'll do now is I'll I'll play some

1159
00:43:27,930 --> 00:43:26,349
interviews I captured on the day

1160
00:43:30,089 --> 00:43:27,940
starting with our own dear friend and

1161
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:30,099
reporter for the skeptic zone Heidi

1162
00:43:36,359 --> 00:43:33,660
Robertson well here we are at the

1163
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:36,369
vaccination conference Heidi Robertson

1164
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:40,960
hello hey hi having a good day waving to

1165
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:42,910
people on stage no I'm just looking up

1166
00:43:49,289 --> 00:43:46,450
at the screen a couple of our little the

1167
00:43:50,759 --> 00:43:49,299
rivers vaccinations visit look at that

1168
00:43:52,859 --> 00:43:50,769
on the big demon up on the big screen

1169
00:43:55,799 --> 00:43:52,869
here yeah why have you come down here

1170
00:43:57,959 --> 00:43:55,809
today come down just as a support to

1171
00:44:03,329 --> 00:43:57,969
Rachel dr. Rachel heap who was on a

1172
00:44:05,999 --> 00:44:03,339
panel today for a immunization workshop

1173
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:06,009
the panel specifically was on vaccine

1174
00:44:09,539 --> 00:44:07,930
hesitant parents and how to address

1175
00:44:11,099 --> 00:44:09,549
which we've just seen and it was quite a

1176
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,109
good interesting it was excellent yeah

1177
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:13,359
excellent we had Dave walks from stop

1178
00:44:19,769 --> 00:44:15,880
the ABN on the panel our doctor Rachel

1179
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:19,779
heap we had Katie at well from I

1180
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:22,210
immunized Australia who's that's also a

1181
00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:25,410
grassroots organization and a

1182
00:44:29,950 --> 00:44:28,180
pediatrician as well so it was very very

1183
00:44:31,570 --> 00:44:29,960
good very interesting

1184
00:44:33,310 --> 00:44:31,580
it's really good to see you come down

1185
00:44:36,579 --> 00:44:33,320
you've come down here with a arcing

1186
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:36,589
gaylord it's just over there you flew

1187
00:44:39,609 --> 00:44:37,790
down all the way from the Northern

1188
00:44:41,770 --> 00:44:39,619
Rivers just to attend this conflict yeah

1189
00:44:43,210 --> 00:44:41,780
yeah this is what we've been wanting for

1190
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:43,220
a couple of years we've been wanting

1191
00:44:49,930 --> 00:44:47,839
some attention on the unique cluster but

1192
00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:49,940
is the northern rivers and the same over

1193
00:44:54,070 --> 00:44:51,950
in Fremantle and other clusters in

1194
00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:54,080
Australia we want we want some attention

1195
00:44:58,359 --> 00:44:56,150
and some recognition that we need

1196
00:45:01,240 --> 00:44:58,369
different strategies to to address

1197
00:45:03,609 --> 00:45:01,250
what's going on in our region's I think

1198
00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:03,619
we'll learn a lot and we've got lunch

1199
00:45:08,349 --> 00:45:06,830
now than the whole afternoon yes should

1200
00:45:12,359 --> 00:45:08,359
be good you're going to talk to Rachel

1201
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:14,730
well now I'll grab you for a quick

1202
00:45:19,049 --> 00:45:17,710
interview why I've got you for a benefit

1203
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:19,059
of our audience who are you where are

1204
00:45:23,609 --> 00:45:22,240
you from my name is Rachel heap I am one

1205
00:45:25,620 --> 00:45:23,619
of the admins of Northern Rivers

1206
00:45:27,749 --> 00:45:25,630
fascination supporters and i'm also an

1207
00:45:29,759 --> 00:45:27,759
adult intensive care specialist that was

1208
00:45:33,089 --> 00:45:29,769
a very interesting panel discussion we

1209
00:45:34,890 --> 00:45:33,099
just had been about vaccine hesitant see

1210
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:34,900
now this is an interesting term because

1211
00:45:40,589 --> 00:45:36,910
I'm so used to backs or vaccine denies

1212
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,599
or refuses but vaccine hesitancy zai I'd

1213
00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:41,920
sort of quite like it in a way because

1214
00:45:45,539 --> 00:45:43,630
it sounds like someone you could talk to

1215
00:45:47,069 --> 00:45:45,549
and discuss things with absolutely and I

1216
00:45:49,410 --> 00:45:47,079
don't think it's fair to say that you

1217
00:45:51,930 --> 00:45:49,420
can't talk to anybody you can always

1218
00:45:54,269 --> 00:45:51,940
have a conversation and the framework of

1219
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:54,279
parental attitudes towards vaccination

1220
00:45:58,319 --> 00:45:56,170
has included a wide range of parental

1221
00:46:01,680 --> 00:45:58,329
attitudes in court including hesitancy

1222
00:46:04,769 --> 00:46:01,690
and refusal they're actually they're all

1223
00:46:07,529 --> 00:46:04,779
just people who are scared who can be

1224
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:07,539
reassured if you have access to a

1225
00:46:11,549 --> 00:46:09,490
culturally appropriate way to have those

1226
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:11,559
conversations it's interesting you

1227
00:46:13,769 --> 00:46:12,640
should say that because earlier in the

1228
00:46:15,779 --> 00:46:13,779
day we had some people talking about

1229
00:46:17,309 --> 00:46:15,789
indigenous issues and saying that it's

1230
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:17,319
very important to have the right people

1231
00:46:21,630 --> 00:46:20,170
to talk to them absolutely absolutely so

1232
00:46:23,579 --> 00:46:21,640
peer-to-peer conversations are

1233
00:46:24,839 --> 00:46:23,589
absolutely vital with the scientists in

1234
00:46:27,390 --> 00:46:24,849
the background to back up the

1235
00:46:32,819 --> 00:46:27,400
information to ensure that the message

1236
00:46:34,460 --> 00:46:32,829
they're sharing is accurate and true but

1237
00:46:37,650 --> 00:46:34,470
the power comes from the peer-to-peer

1238
00:46:40,170 --> 00:46:37,660
conversation and I consider my job as

1239
00:46:42,599 --> 00:46:40,180
the sort of the scientific backup from

1240
00:46:44,509 --> 00:46:42,609
the nrvs is to provide the information

1241
00:46:47,099 --> 00:46:44,519
for the parents to have peer-to-peer

1242
00:46:48,839 --> 00:46:47,109
conversations I'm happy to my

1243
00:46:51,089 --> 00:46:48,849
peer-to-peer conversations is to teach

1244
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:51,099
the GPS to teach the medical students

1245
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:54,130
and to provide the information and to

1246
00:46:57,450 --> 00:46:56,079
empower our community to have

1247
00:46:59,339 --> 00:46:57,460
peer-to-peer conversation as themselves

1248
00:47:01,079 --> 00:46:59,349
I think that's a wonderful idea look I

1249
00:47:02,430 --> 00:47:01,089
won't detain you any more because that

1250
00:47:05,130 --> 00:47:02,440
we both have to step out and get some

1251
00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:05,140
lunch thank you very

1252
00:47:08,609 --> 00:47:07,180
it's no surprise that I should bump into

1253
00:47:10,799 --> 00:47:08,619
Peter red bags manage here at the

1254
00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:10,809
conference how you finding it so far I'm

1255
00:47:15,779 --> 00:47:12,900
finally a very interesting so far so

1256
00:47:17,549 --> 00:47:15,789
certainly very useful stuff it is and

1257
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:17,559
it's so nice to be somewhere where

1258
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:19,210
people are having a raffle the same

1259
00:47:24,180 --> 00:47:21,569
conversation about vaccinations it is

1260
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:24,190
but obviously when none of us are going

1261
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:25,210
to agree with everything that's said to

1262
00:47:29,759 --> 00:47:28,210
die but because I think we've all got

1263
00:47:31,799 --> 00:47:29,769
different approaches to solving this sad

1264
00:47:33,569 --> 00:47:31,809
one yeah but certainly I think I

1265
00:47:34,740 --> 00:47:33,579
definitely getting this living with this

1266
00:47:36,569 --> 00:47:34,750
other people together to definitely

1267
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,579
worthwhile because we're hearing various

1268
00:47:40,289 --> 00:47:38,160
opinions about how people can go about

1269
00:47:41,819 --> 00:47:40,299
getting the word about vaccinations out

1270
00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:41,829
there getting for people who are

1271
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:43,750
hesitant getting the people who actually

1272
00:47:48,839 --> 00:47:46,930
refusing yeah and basically making us

1273
00:47:50,970 --> 00:47:48,849
all safer and healthier it's good and ER

1274
00:47:52,289 --> 00:47:50,980
stop the Australian vaccination network

1275
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:52,299
has certainly got a lot of mentions

1276
00:47:58,599 --> 00:47:54,670
today they certainly have yes very

1277
00:48:01,450 --> 00:47:59,890
come up quite frequently and the

1278
00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:01,460
Northern Rivers vaccination people do

1279
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:04,190
yeah well I think that I'll be like I

1280
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:06,890
declare my vested interest here but I

1281
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:09,049
think both those organizations on the

1282
00:48:13,539 --> 00:48:10,970
second one and all the rulers one grew

1283
00:48:15,849 --> 00:48:13,549
out of their say there yeah that we

1284
00:48:17,229 --> 00:48:15,859
really started it but I'd been fighting

1285
00:48:18,729 --> 00:48:17,239
them any vaccinations people for years

1286
00:48:22,269 --> 00:48:18,739
but what we knew too yeah it was

1287
00:48:23,769 --> 00:48:22,279
Facebook yes yes absolutely right but i

1288
00:48:25,749 --> 00:48:23,779
could write letters to the editor i can

1289
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:25,759
do that that all the sudden we had a

1290
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:27,680
resource there yeah we could pull

1291
00:48:33,819 --> 00:48:29,900
together originally about a thousand

1292
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:33,829
people who as david said on me we

1293
00:48:38,289 --> 00:48:35,710
weren't just doctors there were lawyers

1294
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,299
user account still a bureaucrat you know

1295
00:48:42,999 --> 00:48:41,359
every rock raphy works and we're able to

1296
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:43,009
put a whole series of them skills to it

1297
00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:45,410
so when you people knew have two things

1298
00:48:51,940 --> 00:48:49,160
and most of the little bit that's true

1299
00:48:54,339 --> 00:48:51,950
no it's it's interesting because you and

1300
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:54,349
I go back to the many years ago when i

1301
00:48:58,329 --> 00:48:55,730
went to that talk with you the

1302
00:49:00,130 --> 00:48:58,339
vaccination in vaccination network were

1303
00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:00,140
running where I was gobsmacked all those

1304
00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:00,880
years ago

1305
00:49:06,809 --> 00:49:04,180
but that was 2003 I think I think it was

1306
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:06,819
we heard such gems as that the World

1307
00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:08,680
Health Organization put the Nazis in the

1308
00:49:12,809 --> 00:49:10,150
shame and things like that's right in

1309
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:12,819
the shade but that were there were 350

1310
00:49:17,279 --> 00:49:15,609
so people at that seminar they've gone

1311
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:17,289
they can't hold those seminars anymore

1312
00:49:21,420 --> 00:49:19,450
yeah they can't they can't put all those

1313
00:49:23,339 --> 00:49:21,430
mothers and their babies and parents

1314
00:49:24,809 --> 00:49:23,349
into a room and stand there and tell

1315
00:49:27,269 --> 00:49:24,819
them license to our but they did then

1316
00:49:29,249 --> 00:49:27,279
yeah it just doesn't work anymore it's

1317
00:49:30,450 --> 00:49:29,259
good all right we're holding our people

1318
00:49:31,769 --> 00:49:30,460
from their lunch this is a terrible

1319
00:49:36,930 --> 00:49:31,779
thing thanks very my going to be to

1320
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:36,940
thank you so there's some comments from

1321
00:49:41,069 --> 00:49:38,650
the day itself it was quite good it was

1322
00:49:46,249 --> 00:49:41,079
quite well attended what did you learn

1323
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:46,259
from the day Alison I picked up some

1324
00:49:54,140 --> 00:49:49,619
more methods of addressing hesitancy I

1325
00:49:57,900 --> 00:49:54,150
learnt a lot from the indigenous

1326
00:50:01,740 --> 00:49:57,910
presentations and but as well as that I

1327
00:50:04,109 --> 00:50:01,750
think I also learnt that we were able to

1328
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:04,119
communicate and get our point across

1329
00:50:12,359 --> 00:50:08,460
with people who are researchers who are

1330
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,369
academics that may not necessarily be on

1331
00:50:17,759 --> 00:50:14,559
the ground as we are so I think it was a

1332
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:17,769
great opportunity for us to present what

1333
00:50:25,410 --> 00:50:21,970
it's like for us at Ground Zero when

1334
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:25,420
we're talking to people and what we face

1335
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:28,450
when we're trying to raise the

1336
00:50:33,180 --> 00:50:31,210
immunization levels in the area yeah it

1337
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:33,190
was a really really useful day all

1338
00:50:36,980 --> 00:50:34,930
around I saw some really interesting

1339
00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:36,990
people that was great to see you

1340
00:50:40,349 --> 00:50:39,160
fantastic to see you and Heidi there of

1341
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:40,359
course and the other members from the

1342
00:50:45,799 --> 00:50:43,210
the organization and I don't think I

1343
00:50:48,690 --> 00:50:45,809
could thank you allison because you i

1344
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,700
twisted your arm i twisted your vocal

1345
00:50:51,539 --> 00:50:50,319
cords and you did the voiceover for the

1346
00:50:53,730 --> 00:50:51,549
ad i run occasionally for the

1347
00:50:56,190 --> 00:50:53,740
vaccination chronicles DVD and it was

1348
00:50:58,529 --> 00:50:56,200
because of that ad being on the skeptic

1349
00:51:01,380 --> 00:50:58,539
zone that our friends in sweden had the

1350
00:51:03,509 --> 00:51:01,390
idea to get a copy the DVD which is now

1351
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:03,519
in swedish which is quite exciting and

1352
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:05,650
the ones we've just heard recently that

1353
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:08,440
the on YouTube the documentary has been

1354
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:11,440
dubbed into Russian so it's just so

1355
00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:13,930
gratifying to know that a little bit of

1356
00:51:16,410 --> 00:51:14,680
effort from our

1357
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,420
interview can result in something like

1358
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:18,400
this important important message getting

1359
00:51:23,010 --> 00:51:20,800
out there around the world almost

1360
00:51:25,830 --> 00:51:23,020
definitely and something that's become

1361
00:51:28,170 --> 00:51:25,840
really apparent to me after the media

1362
00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:28,180
frenzy we've just encountered this last

1363
00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:33,700
weeks when the TV reporters were out on

1364
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:36,150
the main street in mulund in be

1365
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:39,370
interviewing local people about their

1366
00:51:44,310 --> 00:51:42,130
thoughts on vaccination and the new

1367
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:44,320
policy that's coming in here in

1368
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,310
Australia I was really surprised at the

1369
00:51:54,210 --> 00:51:51,520
amount of people that were being

1370
00:51:58,290 --> 00:51:54,220
interviewed that seemed to be vaccine

1371
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:58,300
refuses but they were of a generation

1372
00:52:00,900 --> 00:51:59,920
where their children would have already

1373
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:00,910
grown up and they were probably

1374
00:52:06,420 --> 00:52:04,240
grandparents so you know these are the

1375
00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:06,430
older people in our society that should

1376
00:52:12,030 --> 00:52:09,190
actually remember diseases like polio

1377
00:52:15,150 --> 00:52:12,040
and diphtheria so it's got me to

1378
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:15,160
thinking this last week and i think i

1379
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:19,510
mentioned to you that what Heidi and I

1380
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:22,930
are going to do is going to promote the

1381
00:52:29,630 --> 00:52:24,850
hell out of the vaccination protocols

1382
00:52:33,450 --> 00:52:29,640
because I i want to remind those people

1383
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:33,460
about a period not so long ago that they

1384
00:52:39,860 --> 00:52:36,090
should still be remembering and also as

1385
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:39,870
elders of the community they should be

1386
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:42,160
passing that information along and

1387
00:52:50,850 --> 00:52:46,180
they're not so Heidi and I are going to

1388
00:52:53,210 --> 00:52:50,860
be distributing the DVD at the Northern

1389
00:52:56,610 --> 00:52:53,220
Rivers vaccination supporters expense

1390
00:52:59,310 --> 00:52:56,620
we're going to you know put the costs

1391
00:53:00,600 --> 00:52:59,320
we've bought the DVDs we're going to do

1392
00:53:04,410 --> 00:53:00,610
the printing we're going to cover the

1393
00:53:06,540 --> 00:53:04,420
postage for local people and and I'll

1394
00:53:11,550 --> 00:53:06,550
even drop them off at people's houses on

1395
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:11,560
eating and yes I you know I want to also

1396
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:13,690
get in contact with the local Rotary and

1397
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:16,960
lions clubs and but you know they're

1398
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:18,970
slightly older people that are normally

1399
00:53:23,550 --> 00:53:21,760
members so if we can and distribute

1400
00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:23,560
amongst them they can pass them on to

1401
00:53:29,609 --> 00:53:25,900
family and friends

1402
00:53:31,710 --> 00:53:29,619
yeah I'm even debating going to the

1403
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:31,720
nursing home and giving them a capital

1404
00:53:37,799 --> 00:53:35,170
DVDs as well so yes it's really got me

1405
00:53:39,299 --> 00:53:37,809
thinking wow that's fantastic it's it's

1406
00:53:41,279 --> 00:53:39,309
it's so good to know the people out

1407
00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:41,289
there like you are coming up with ideas

1408
00:53:46,349 --> 00:53:44,230
to help don't we really what we're doing

1409
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,359
when you get down to it what we're doing

1410
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,920
we're promoting good sense and good

1411
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,079
science and any way we can do that

1412
00:53:54,839 --> 00:53:52,720
anywhere around the world I think it's a

1413
00:53:56,130 --> 00:53:54,849
very worthwhile thing so people in your

1414
00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:56,140
neck of the woods which is a North Coast

1415
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,230
area of New South Wales and I could

1416
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:01,119
probably say that the southern bits of

1417
00:54:10,220 --> 00:54:02,710
Queensland too so what's the website

1418
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:10,230
they should go there to Alison ww nrvs

1419
00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:14,319
info is our website and they'll be able

1420
00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:19,270
to request a DVD from us I would say

1421
00:54:24,269 --> 00:54:22,510
that if people are interstate to us we

1422
00:54:27,180 --> 00:54:24,279
may have to charge your postage we're at

1423
00:54:29,370 --> 00:54:27,190
we're a grassroots group we have no

1424
00:54:32,609 --> 00:54:29,380
funding whatsoever everything's done out

1425
00:54:34,859 --> 00:54:32,619
of our own pockets so yeah but if its

1426
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:34,869
people in the local area and you know

1427
00:54:38,900 --> 00:54:36,880
even southeast Queensland like you said

1428
00:54:42,809 --> 00:54:38,910
it's not that far over the border I'm

1429
00:54:44,819 --> 00:54:42,819
happy to put the postage costs that's

1430
00:54:47,490 --> 00:54:44,829
just fantastic well if people are

1431
00:54:48,779 --> 00:54:47,500
elsewhere in the world and other parts

1432
00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:48,789
of Australia they can always come to the

1433
00:54:53,789 --> 00:54:50,500
skeptics own website and have a look for

1434
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:53,799
the DVD there but yes really for the

1435
00:54:58,230 --> 00:54:55,390
northern rivers area of New South Wales

1436
00:55:00,420 --> 00:54:58,240
where you are because the version of the

1437
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:00,430
DVD I made for you is actually tailored

1438
00:55:04,859 --> 00:55:02,529
to that area with a special introduction

1439
00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:04,869
so that's probably the way to go yes it

1440
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:06,670
is yes you did that wonderful

1441
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:09,910
introduction at the beginning and which

1442
00:55:16,140 --> 00:55:13,599
we've tagged on to the the documentary

1443
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:16,150
itself so yeah it's really particular

1444
00:55:21,150 --> 00:55:19,690
for this area but I'm you know it I'd

1445
00:55:22,410 --> 00:55:21,160
like everyone to see it to be honest

1446
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:22,420
with you because I'd like everyone to

1447
00:55:30,089 --> 00:55:25,930
see what it's actually like here yes

1448
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:30,099
it's quite a remarkable thing I keep

1449
00:55:33,420 --> 00:55:31,569
threatening to come up and visit I must

1450
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:33,430
do that one day well listen Allison

1451
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:35,200
Gaylord all the way up there in rainy

1452
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:38,050
old wet soggy mullen bimbi

1453
00:55:41,610 --> 00:55:40,330
very much for your time today and thank

1454
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:41,620
you very much for making the effort to

1455
00:55:46,290 --> 00:55:43,330
come down and being part of this

1456
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:46,300
important day here in Sydney I'll thank

1457
00:56:04,560 --> 00:55:47,620
you so much rich and thank you for all

1458
00:56:06,420 --> 00:56:04,570
your support as well I know by good

1459
00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:06,430
crashbug a boardwalk a skeptic

1460
00:56:10,050 --> 00:56:08,500
worcestershire joshula is a skeptic we

1461
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:10,060
service attack algo Python a cha'aka

1462
00:56:14,790 --> 00:56:12,790
hanukkah meet the skeptics on podcast

1463
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:14,800
target or vision heritage from dr.

1464
00:56:19,020 --> 00:56:17,050
Prasad to the manual Travie like oh she

1465
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:19,030
touched a critical gondola rosh hashanah

1466
00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:22,090
lips Urushi tea should i said at marys

1467
00:56:25,980 --> 00:56:23,950
20 and then he can shake member travelin

1468
00:56:28,050 --> 00:56:25,990
coca-cola tote or dvd born skeptic who

1469
00:56:30,510 --> 00:56:28,060
starts a shark 1 2 which is info @

1470
00:56:32,070 --> 00:56:30,520
skeptic push bond Hootie man tova by

1471
00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:32,080
Allen film at the facebook or done

1472
00:56:36,990 --> 00:56:34,750
cottage amita facebook.com / skeptic

1473
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:37,000
gustar shaktiman tellez voila mint

1474
00:56:43,770 --> 00:56:41,440
wiring sarita dharamdas van ingen hi

1475
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:43,780
this is garba raas co-president of the

1476
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,970
hungarian skeptics society and chairman

1477
00:56:50,130 --> 00:56:47,680
of the European Council of skeptical

1478
00:56:52,290 --> 00:56:50,140
organizations as a listener of the

1479
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,300
skeptic zone you probably agree that

1480
00:56:56,570 --> 00:56:54,400
educating others about pseudoscience and

1481
00:56:59,130 --> 00:56:56,580
critical thinking is an important task

1482
00:57:01,020 --> 00:56:59,140
if you are eager to take part in either

1483
00:57:03,420 --> 00:57:01,030
of these activities we would be happy to

1484
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:03,430
hear from you don't hesitate to contact

1485
00:57:12,030 --> 00:57:09,850
us at www.adr.org info at skeptical hu

1486
00:57:14,670 --> 00:57:12,040
we also recommend you visiting our

1487
00:57:16,770 --> 00:57:14,680
Facebook page skeptic booster shot or

1488
00:57:18,810 --> 00:57:16,780
simply come and join us at one of our

1489
00:57:34,290 --> 00:57:18,820
events

1490
00:57:38,770 --> 00:57:36,910
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1491
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:38,780
zone now coming up pretty soon for those

1492
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:40,880
people who live in Sydney if you drop by

1493
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:43,970
2042 cafe and deli which is in King

1494
00:57:48,070 --> 00:57:46,370
Street Newtown from the 11th of me

1495
00:57:50,380 --> 00:57:48,080
you'll be able to see an exhibition of

1496
00:57:51,550 --> 00:57:50,390
my photography it's very exciting i've

1497
00:57:54,070 --> 00:57:51,560
never had an exhibition of my

1498
00:57:58,600 --> 00:57:54,080
photography before drop by have a coffee

1499
00:58:00,720 --> 00:57:58,610
and i hope you enjoy my photography a

1500
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:00,730
big thank you to josh god be for

1501
00:58:04,650 --> 00:58:03,170
stepping in and being our guest reporter

1502
00:58:07,330 --> 00:58:04,660
this week i think you did a great job

1503
00:58:10,030 --> 00:58:07,340
Josh look out I might ask you to do some

1504
00:58:12,130 --> 00:58:10,040
more reports in the future coming up on

1505
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:12,140
the skeptic zone I hope to chat with the

1506
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:14,050
one only james randi about the upcoming

1507
00:58:18,820 --> 00:58:16,910
amazing meeting in las vegas tam again

1508
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:18,830
i'll be there helping out with a

1509
00:58:23,530 --> 00:58:21,170
million-dollar challenge as normal and

1510
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:23,540
will be great to see skeptics own fans

1511
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:26,000
at the amazing meeting i always have a

1512
00:58:29,860 --> 00:58:27,890
wonderful time then it's it's nice to

1513
00:58:32,350 --> 00:58:29,870
meet up with people from all over the

1514
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:32,360
world more details about that coming up

1515
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:34,160
but for this week this is Richard

1516
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:36,710
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1517
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:42,950
Australia you've been listening to the

1518
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:45,050
skeptics own podcast visit our website

1519
00:58:52,570 --> 00:58:49,310
at wwc a petting zoo TV for contacts and

1520
00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:52,580
archive of all episodes since 2008 and

1521
00:58:57,790 --> 00:58:55,760
our online store please support the

1522
00:59:01,150 --> 00:58:57,800
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1523
00:59:04,660 --> 00:59:01,160
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00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:04,670
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1527
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1528
00:59:17,110 --> 00:59:14,690
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1529
00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:17,120
expressed on the skeptic zone and not

1530
00:59:21,610 --> 00:59:19,190
necessarily those Australian skeptic